DISQUS

Darren · 1 year ago

I heard a similar 'it's all about mommy bloggers' vibe from another attendee, who shall remain nameless.

And, on balance, I would've thought that young single men would the critical target market for Roomba. They're all lazy bastards, after all, and they like robots.

Beth · 1 year ago

Exactly! Lazy + love of robots should be their target market. I guess they figure that single men are happy to just live in their own filth?

miss604 · 1 year ago

"Come to our bitter fest" hehe this is great stuff - I got the same vibe from a "Woman in Business" conference I went to in Vancouver... the "businesses" showcased were either selling watercolours, chocolate, jewelery or potpourri. I kid you not - c'mon ladies!

crunchy carpets · 1 year ago

Yeah.. I am formulating a bit of my own rant on gender stuff and so on..based on my experience there and what other people have said...I will be linking...watchout!

Beth · 1 year ago

Ya, seriously. Where do the hip geek chicks go? I guess just to the regular tech conferences....

Beth · 1 year ago

@crunchcarpets - Cool! I'll keep my eye out for it!

Raul · 1 year ago

Ok, so I have to say that I expected a different rant but I loved this one. Darn it. You *are* good.

Ok, so a bit of history - I am one of five boys in a 7 people household (Mommy, Daddy and 5 brothers). My Dad used to be annoyingly macho and decided we didnt' need house-working skills. Mom said "well, if they don't learn house-working skills, they'll be totally useless when they're on their own".

First brother moved out and found himself totally useless. Same with second, third, etc... One day I am making dinner for my brother and he looks at me with sweet brotherly eyes and says "Raul, you are amazing - you know how to cook/clean/sew your own seams/do laundry and I am so totally useless".

Moral of the story - not all men spend only 14 hours a week in house chores. Some (like me) spend substantially MORE.

Beth · 1 year ago

@Raul - Now I'm curious - what rant did you expect? And did your mom do all the housework (from the sounds of your dad's attitude, I can't imagine he'd be doing any)?

monicahamburg · 1 year ago

All uncircumcised men Room 211...

Dan · 1 year ago

As a single man I have to say that my experience along the baby front is similar. What have I heard in regards to my lack of children?

1. I am not a complete human being because I have decided that I do not want children of my own.
2. I won't ever know true love until I have a child. (Apparently it's not only the Wizard of Oz that gives one a heart; babies have that power too!)
3. I can't understand most things that 'evolved' people (a.k.a. parents) understand because I lack a child of my very own. WTF?
4. God wants me to have kids (good grief). It's my religious birthright and Christian duty (te he, duty).
5. I am selfish because I don't want children. This was told to me by family members. Religious family members. Religious Catholic family members who apparently or conveniently forgot that JC (according to their beliefs) was without child. And we all know (based on the stories about him), that JC was a selfish prick.
6. No one is going to take care of me when I'm old because I have no children. I LOVE that this argument is employed usually following argument 5. That is, it's selfish of me NOT to have children, but I must have them so someone takes care of ME when I'm old. WTF?
7. I must be gay because I have no children. Because gay people apparently don't have children or want children. The fun part of this argument is when the religious family members consider the implications of bringing this one up.***
8. Other parents couldn't imagine their lives without kids, thus I need children too. Seriously? How does this argument even hold up? Their experience is based on deciding to have children. As such, they can not know what their lives would have been (since becoming parents) if they chose not to have kids. That is, they are telling me my life would be better because they assume the presence of children made their lives better. Not having kids could have been the event that made their lives even more fulfilled than it currently is. They can't know both realities.

As for the other stuff:
1. Laundry detergent in swag bags? I WOULD LOVE THAT. I too love free stuff. Especially free stuff that I hate spending money on otherwise.
2. Soap Nuts? Am I the only one that thinks that is the funniest bag of laundry detergent ever? A BAG OF SOAP NUTS? Classic.
3. Roomba's - although I wouldn't buy one, I'd definitely try one out as I too loathe vacuuming.
4. As for housework, I do 100% of it in my home.
5. Chief Home Officer? Really? REALLY?
6. I love the button.

*** My personal stance on marriage (that is, my never wanting to get married) doesn't help when this argument comes to light. Again, despite what I've read in the news, apparently gay men and women also don't want to get married.

Raul · 1 year ago

Whoa. Dude - way to start up the conversation.

@ Beth - Not sure what I expected, my own complaint of BlogHer if I had gone would have been "hey don't any single men come to BlogHer just out of curiosity?" Being as I am a single young man who DOES want to have children but is currently child-less, I am sure I'd find some panels interesting/amusing. Anyways, not sure what I was expecting but I loved the rant.

As for my Dad - He wanted to never do house-work. But then my Mom got a PhD, a career of her own and told my Dad she would never help again with his legal stuff (both my parents are lawyers) and ... Dad started making lunch for us every day and other household chores :)

@ Dan - Given that 100% of my Mexican friends are currently married with children, I face the same issues that you do with respect to 1, 2, 3, 6, 8. Unfortunately, I DO want to have children, but it's not a MUST, it's a WANT.

A few weeks back I talked on Andy's blog about how the iPhone was a WANT and not a NEED. Same goes for children. I WANT children, I don't NEED children.

monicahamburg · 1 year ago

@Dan - don't get me started on this. I didn't realize single men ever experienced this - so thanks so much for that.

Now the rant: I don't want children. Never did, never will. I'm 34. Biological clock never installed. Not interested. Period.

I have heard all 8 reasons you wrote above and they all make me borderline homicidal in their condescension, but they all fall behind the most popular and insulting ones A) "You'll change your mind" (Can I say that about how you feel about your children?! Or would you think that RUDE...?) B) "You're a woman, that's your purpose." (But what about typing and answering phones?!!)

Dan · 1 year ago

@Raul I love the fact that you recognize children as a 'want' and not a 'need'.

@monicahamburg - OH MY FSM! As painful as those reasons are, I can't help but laugh. First off, I think I might have to make a shirt that reads "I don't want children. Biological clock never installed". I LOVE IT. As for reasons A and B all I can say is WOW. Your responses to both make me feel that humanity isn't completely devoid of intellectual thought.

@Beth77 Thanks for starting this dialogue. Very entertaining indeed!

buzzbishop · 1 year ago

Yes, the Cult of Mom can be rather freaky.

But it's weird, once you have kids - they really do strangle your life and define your identity. The challenge is to still be true to yourself.

Some, however, just dont have their own personality and are quite fine being defined by their children.

I was almost assimilated into the Cult of Mom at a recent library storytime.
http://www.buzzbishop.com/blog/2008/07/24/the-c...

monicahamburg · 1 year ago

@buzz I'm sure they do take over - and that's understandable. And my rant (to the Stepford Wives, not to you) is that that's FINE.

But a word to the cult: it's also FINE to not have kids. I wonder if, instead of being polite about the condescending comments directed at the child-free, cult-of-moms (thanks for that, Buzz!) would prefer we take an equally insulting stance and respond to someone telling us they have kids with "You have GOT to be kidding me!!!"

@dan - Thanks so much :) And I appreciate the use of the word "intellectual" placed anywhere around my name.

monicahamburg · 1 year ago

@Beth - BTW - absolutely loved this post. Funny, smart and thought-provoking. Kudos.

jodyreale · 1 year ago

Love the footnotes; thanks for representin' the good Zwaggle vibes.

Beth · 1 year ago

Wowsa! I wasn't expecting so many comments! This is awesome!

@Dan - I love, I repeat LOVE, your rant! Awesome to get a male perspective on this!

And I was hoping someone would notice the Soap Nuts. Made me giggle almost as much as we giggled over the syrupy "balls" at the Indian buffet. *giggle*

@monica - "What about typing and answering phones??!" had me laughing right out loud!

@buzz - I can only imagine how much kids take over your life (heck, I only have a niece and she's redefine me as "Aunt Beth" and my parents as "Grandma & Grandpa") and I can see that would be a struggle to be true to yourself. But to me, that struggle would be worth it, because I don't think anyone should become defined solely by parenthood. More like a combination of your parent identity with your other identities.

And, as Monica points out, it's OK to not have kids too!

@Jody - My pleasure! (Bet you are glad there wasn't a Zwaggle song for me to mock, eh?)

buzzbishop · 1 year ago

I think you also need to look at it from the pov of the marketers.

Women at a blogging convention. Odds are more than likely, that a majority of them will have / want children. Yes, there will be some non breeders there, there will also most likely be some gay bloggers there as well... but. .. when trying to deal in majorities and probabilities, you have to generalize, pigeon-hole and stereotype.

it's not wrong, it's not right, it's just how it is.

Raul · 1 year ago

Agreed.

One point that is important to remember is that parenthood may indeed define some people. My brother and my sister in law just became parents recently (last year, late in the year) and they feel as though in many respects, they are no long S and B but they are L's parents. To me, they are still individuals, but to themselves, they are L's parents. It's an interesting change of perspective.

Sometimes, when I am angry at the way my brothers educate their children, or my brothers respond to my Mom or Dad, I get this response "you are not a parent, you wouldn't understand". And my blood boils. But the truth is, there are experiences I haven't had as a father, and I can't speak to those. However, and in complete agreement with Dan, the fact that I am not a father doesn't mean that I am not able to understand certain things. I may not have the experience, but I can kind of get it.

Fatherhood is something, as I mentioned before, that I cherish and want but that I don't necessarily need, much less to be defined by it.

melaniea · 1 year ago

I think I'm a blogger who is a Mama, rather than a Mommyblogger. I think. At least with my current blog. I started blogging while I was pregnant, but found I had a lot more to say than would fit in a pregnancy/mommyhood blog, so I started a new blog. There's still lots and lots of stuff about my son and being a Mama, but other stuff too. (Ok, so some of it - like recipes and photos of cakes I've decorated - is still a bit 50s Hausfrau-ish... But I also use footnotes!)

And by the way, as I've been reading this post, my husband has been doing the laundry :-) In fact, while we were away on his sabbatical, he did about 98% of the laundry. He's also the one who does the ironing.

melaniea · 1 year ago

Oh, and I'd also love to get a Roomba - but because I'd love to see how my cat would respond to it.

Sarah · 1 year ago

I am late to the discussion...

@buzzbishop, you beat me to my point.

Marketers of personal care produts and the like see a group of women in their 30s (especially in the US, where people get married more often and much younger, and have kids much younger, than countries like Canada or others in the EU) and they salivate. The Blogher ads on blogs I read are almost invariably for diapers, etc. Gross generalization, ho! But marketers must believe that the lion's share of Blogher attendees will have kids and run households (based on US demographics), and so aim roll out products that correspond.

The thing I found the most astounding, though, was the total number of hours for housework specified by the Roomba people - 44 hours a week. Now, granted, Dave and I do not have kids (ducks tomatoes) yet, but WOW! Does this count the time that a washer or dryer are running? Or that stuff is baking in the oven with minimal intervention? With the two of us at the cats, even with a large house, that seems like a LOT. Doesn't it?

Now I sound like a slob, but Beth - you have stayed with me in virtually every place I've lived. And it's pretty clean, right? Even my Mom, who keeps an immaculate house, does not spend THAT much time doing housework. That's just CRAZY TALK!

crunchy carpets · 1 year ago

Just popping in to say hi and loving the discussion...

with the kids or no kids....You just can't win either way really...

Last night we were shopping for a wedding gift with the kids in tow....there was a couple there going to the same wedding. A obviously childless couple...the looks WE got from them....I can only imagine.

Most of our friends don't have kids..they think we are weird. They think my brain stopped working when I decided to stay home.

So really..dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

And I feel that your choice is your choice...and how else would we get some rocking aunts and uncles....(I feel the best one's are the childless one's)

- A Roomba would take one look at my house and tell me to fuck off.

- I think BlogHer swag last year included SEX TOYS! Condoms at least.

- It did feel more mommified and less 'tech' to me...but I tend to know more mommies anyway.

- The guys in attendance seemed to be either daddy bloggers, husbands or PR and Marketing dudes.

BlogHer is great...but again....the question arises...do we need a woman only thing or should we be trying to avoid that. People (some women) get in a stink about men only clubs...is this the same or not? Does blogher provide something that we would not get otherwise? - part of me thinks yes..specially for women who are either THINKING about starting online ventures or just exploring blogging as more than an online journal...and heck if you wanna make money..you need the connections.

All very interesting.

Beth · 1 year ago

@buzz & @sarah - Oh, I know that marketers are going to target their audience to the people who buy most of their products - that just makes sense given their goal of selling stuff. And I wasn't talking about any of the parenting products, of which there were many. I was more bitching about the housecleaning products being targeted at women. My point is that I don't think we should just blindly accept that "women do the housework" - I'm raising the issue that we should question that. I don't expect the marketers to do that, their presence there merely reflects the inequality. But I certainly can question it!

@sarah - I'm glad you pointed out that 44 hours seems like a helluva lot of hours of housework. Because I thought that maybe it was just my slovenly ways that made me think "44 hours a week? That's at least 20 times as much as I spend on housework!" But I can assure all that Sarah & Dave's house is always very clean. And they give provide you with a set of matching towels when you stay there. Because they are clean AND organized AND they own sets of matching towels.

@melaniea Can you send your husband to my house to do my vacuuming?

@crunchy - Now I feel doubly screwed (and not in the good way). Where is my BlogHer sex toy swag??

melaniea · 1 year ago

Beth, he's even vacuumed while 'wearing' the baby in a Baby Bjorn. Sorry, he's mine! ;-)

Jamie Lentzner · 1 year ago

Hey I met ya at lunch the second day (or first, really it is a blur) I did not make the wall of business cards (whimper). I have do have kids but don't blog about them much, mostly about my business - and I agree, lots and lots of mommy talk. I write for collaborative blog and we got not one but two swag bags - with nursing stuff, slings, baby shoes, baby toys, baby, baby, baby stuff - my kids are 6 and 9, and I am NOT nursing them! I thougth the same thing - would this stuff be at a conference for BlogHim? And....what about the make-overs? My husband never comes home with a new 'do and a shopping spree at Macy's. Cheif Home Officer?? Now I have heard EVERYTHING!
Look forward to following you in the future!

Skye · 1 year ago

Beth, enjoyed meeting you at Blogher. I have to say, though, that I'm disappointed to read your comments about the "childless" panel. I wish you'd found out more about it. It was a great panel, specifically asked for by women without children who felt somewhat sidelined around all the mommybloggers. They wanted to be "categorized by their uterine-status" so they could talk about what they have in common. It wasn't a bitter-fest, and I learned a lot. The panelists and moderator were wonderful.

Beth · 1 year ago

@Skye - I only had the description in the conference brochure to go by, and as it was described, it didn't include me. Glad to hear that you enjoyed though.

Beth · 1 year ago

P.S. I have your "100% Heroine" sticker on my laptop!